The French school system is tough. It starts from preschool, with “grades” on everything from behavior to the ability to recognize shapes and colors. And it continues on, with high school students in class from 8:30 a.m. to 6 p.m. in many cases. Here in France, subjects like geography and philosophy are part of the regular curriculum. I always loved school, but still, as I watch my 4-year-old head off to class, I can’t help but cringe as I look ahead to the exhausting schedule that awaits her. Nothing like the 8:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. routine back in the U.S.
But it’s not just about hours. It’s also about expectations. The French set the bar high when it comes to grades. The top score is 20, but in many cases, a 10 out of 20 is considered good. This is especially the case in a rigorous university program like the Sorbonne. My husband has a degree in literature and linguistics from that university and the feeling among students in his program was: If you make it out with a diploma, you’re lucky. In the literature and linguistics program, about 60 percent of students fail in the first year, and by the second year, 70 percent are forced to drop out.
An example of the difficulty? This weekend, we were looking through my husband’s old notes and assignments, carefully kept in organizers such as the one pictured above.
On one particular analysis (all of the assignments are lengthy analyses of texts, titles, words and even tables of contents!), my husband’s professor wrote the following comment: “A solid paper, precise and just overall.” The grade? You’re probably thinking 18 out of 20? Or maybe even 15. Nope. 12.5 out of 20.
The grading system makes you completely reevaluate your expectations and attitude. You’re happy with a 10 and overjoyed with a 12. Rarely does one even come close to the level of 20. Once, my husband got a 19, and the professor told him, “If I give you a 20, I have to write a letter to the academy justifying the grade, so I’ll just give you a 19.”
There are two positive aspects of this harsh (overly harsh?) grading system: You can really be proud of simply graduating, no matter what the grade. And you end up with general knowledge that is so great that you will be able to keep up with even the most intellectual of conversations. The baccalauréat (or bac) a national exam to obtain a high school diploma, is a series of essay exams in various subjects that resemble a college level exam more than a high school one. The entire last year of high school is preparation for the bac.
So with all of these intellectuals running around France, are the French more successful out in the working world? Not necessarily. In the literary scene, the latest best sellers weren’t written by Sorbonne graduates. This isn’t because the Sorbonne grads aren’t good writers. It’s mainly because they write literary fiction or literary essays rather than catering to the latest trends or genres.
As I mulled over the subject, I realized that the French education system isn’t about careers, money or ostentatious success. It’s about continuing the heritage of learning and keeping the prestigious title of “intellectual.”
Interesting post Adria - I had no idea the French education system was that tough! I can imagine it's quite daunting as a parent to send your children into that system. Hope it all goes well for your daughter. Thanks for linking to #whatImwriting
ReplyDeleteThank you! I think of my days as a student in the U.S. with lots of free time in the afternoons and almost feel guilty... :)
DeleteWhat an interesting post. I knew the French education system is highly regarded but I know nothing about it, thanks for the insight! Although harsh at points, it doesn't sound like it did you or your husband any harm :-)
ReplyDeleteThanks!! In the end, it's true that you really have something to be proud of when you make it through.
Deleteand imagine the shock we all had, though French students we were, when we received our first assignments in the first year of preparation of the Ecole Normal Supérieure, something that does not even exist in the US -- let's say super super Ivy League -- even if you are excellent, you may not make it in, as they take only the very few. So here I am focusing these 2 crazy years of preparation in English. When we got back our first translation, to our horror, we discovered that in these classes, you can even have NEGATIVE grades!!!!!!! Many had -25 or even below, of course always out of 20. I got a 9, I think I remember the best was a 10!!
ReplyDeleteWow! What an interesting story. That is amazing... I've heard that school is extremely difficult but I hadn't imagined to what extent.
DeleteInteresting reflections... I think it's good to set the bar high, as long as it motivates rather than encouraging despondency. It sounds like your 4 year old has her work cut out for her :) x
ReplyDeleteI agree with you: It's great to ask a lot of students but a shame when it becomes discouraging. The key is always finding balance.
DeleteThat sounds tough going, and quite traditional too. I suppose children respond to harsh marking okay if it's consistent and fair. Any sense of injustice would screw things up. And that's a long school day!
ReplyDeleteThe day is so long! Some French children put in more hours at school than their parents do at work! Thanks for stopping by.
DeleteWow, I had no idea the French school system was so intense! But it sounds like all the hard work pays off, for your husband at any rate. I love how neat and artistic his handwriting looks in that photo. Good luck with your daughter's schooling!
ReplyDeleteThank you! My husband was delighted by your comment about his handwriting! The French still study proper handwriting, so I do hope that will continue.
Delete(Melissa G. here) I agree, very nice handwriting, and cute picture! :)
DeleteAh, yes, it was a culture shock for my children when they started French school and got a point deducted for every wrong accent in their dictation. You could certainly end up with negative grades very soon!
ReplyDeleteYou put a positive interpretation on it, but I do wonder if at times it is not too discouraging for certain children and makes them 'switch off' early on. Also, I wonder if that contributes to the general pessimism and harsh critical sense of French society. (Not that I don't love them and don't love living here, but I think they are a bit too negative about themselves at times).
I think you're right: This does contribute to the pessimism. There is that feeling of never being good enough. That is the down side of such a rigorous program...
DeleteInteresting. I do like the idea of pushing our children further but this sounds very tough. It has been nice to learn a little more about a different culture. Thanks for sharing. xx #WhatImWriting
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by. Schooling is rough in France, and I wish they would do something to lighten up the system just a tiny bit, leaving children time to enjoy artistic activities.
DeleteOh that does sound tough :( I think the uk system expects a lot of primary school children and it hurts my heart a bit. Luckily the boys go to a school that teach via immersive learning, so whilst still pressured, it's less rigid. x
ReplyDeleteI think that when a system is too rigid, it can be discouraging. I'm all for a more creative approach! Thanks for stopping by!
DeleteWow. That's a tough system. Do many students find it demoralising? I sometimes wonder if, with all the awards our education system in the UK gives our kids, we aren't really teaching them the value of genuine talent. The workplace doesn't (generally) care if you've not had a turn at being employee of the month, or you've failed 17 interviews previously but it sometimes feels like this is what we're teaching our kids. Maybe I'm jaded because I'm priviledged and live in this world where we are perpetually rewarded...
ReplyDeleteSince the French students are used to the system from an early age, they actually don't get too discouraged, and often are satisfied with "average" grades as they know that over here average is pretty good. However, in general, they do grow up with the attitude of "It's impossible to be the best" -- and that's kind of a shame.
DeleteVery nice article.
ReplyDeleteChrissie has a point. I know there are big stress problems for high school kids at Henri IV and Luis le Grand. Some really awuful stuff goes on. Articles have been written on their stress coping activies .
And also Prep school before the ENS. Good luck!
My husband says they are not only testing your IQ but your coping abilities.
I know someone who got a real zero on their French (real zero because it wasn't minus zero) and was lauded for the acheivement. Said person was not accepted to ENS and now the ENS students apply to work in his laboratory to obtain their doctorate. He is also dyslexic. No one laughs at his grammar and spelling mistakes anymore but he still makes them.
The real problem that I've noticed with the Parisian public schools is the competitive spirit that many teachers try to install in the students starting in kindergarten.
This is a very big problem if you are dyslexic or the mother of a dyslexic child.
Thanks for your comment, Angie. Yes, it seems if a child doesn't fit into the mould determined by the French national education system, things can be quite difficult. I'm glad the person in your example was able to show the world that there isn't just one definition of smart!
DeleteHi Adria, it's Melissa G.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting topic, which is also of great interest to me and which I think about a lot in terms of how education hugely influences one's culture and can even affect one's self-perception. Having grown up in the French system, the message is clear from the beginning: basically, you're doomed! And this is considering I went to a "fancy" private school, then a private university...
Didier's professor's comment made me nod with recognition - when I was in high school (aged about 15), my French teacher graded my creative writing essay a 15, which was unheard of, but as if to undermine it, she pointed out that she had shown it to a couple of other teachers to debate on the appropriate grade: "We decided I couldn't give you a 16, that would be too high" (said as if that was a totally ludicrous concept, no other explanation), and that her 15 grade was so exceptional that I had better enjoy it as a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing...
Conversely, fast-forward to my seconde, where I failed to grasp the technique of "commentaire composé" (literary commentary) on my first-ever attempt, and the teacher wrote something to the effect of "incapable of understanding this simple exercise" and went on to predict that I would fail my French bac miserably the following year - and French was my *best* subject! A total overreaction (I ended up getting a 15 at the bac), but her comments still hurt me, some 25 years later...
Best of luck to Phèdre!
This system of discouraging rather than encouraging students is just awful. I think it's great to be demanding, but teachers can still do this in a positive way rather than a negative way. It seems like so many very intelligent people have been through this, as you mention even Zola in your comment below! Thanks for stopping by!
DeletePS - My favorite French writer, Emile Zola, apparently failed his bac because of his poor grade in.... French! So maybe there's hope for the rest of us and the next generations....
ReplyDelete